Jerry Coyne — I might have known — has already beat me to it! I was almost finished this, when I received notification of Jerry’s take on Dawkins’ article about why he won’t debate William Lane Craig: It’s about morality, stupid!
In a short severe article in the Guardian this morning Richard Dawkins puts William Lane Craig decisively in his place, and punctures Craig’s self-serving balloon in several places. Dawkins explains “Why I refuse to debate with William Lane Craig.” As Jerry says, it’s about morality, stupid! Apparently Craig has gone into overdrive trying to shame Dawkins into debating him in Oxford this month, saying that he will place an empty chair on the stage of the Sheldonian Theatre to represent Dawkins’ absence. Here’s the poster for the event:
The presumption of this tin-pot Christian apologist apparently knows no bounds! Notice the reference to the empty chair, as well as the picture of it occupied by a book, and the claim that
In his absence an atheist, agnostic and Christian panel will respond to the lecture.
The outright dishonesty of this is breathtaking. If Dawkins refuses to debate him, he is not absent at all. He is simply not there. An absence suggests and expected presence, and Craig had no right to make that presumption — but it will play well to his support base back home, I have no doubt. And that Oxford should make the Sheldonian available to him is a travesty of what the Sheldonian Theatre — one of the architectural jewels of Oxford, as it has been called — was supposed to be for. According to the University of Oxford sub-site devoted to the Sheldonian, its purpose is described thus:
Its purpose was to provide an appropriate secular venue for the principal meetings and public ceremonies of the University, and this remains its purpose today.
How the mighty have fallen!
William Lane Craig is a self-seeking, preening peacock of a man. He debates — or tries to get debates with — the most prominent of the new atheists, and then he goes back to his website, and tells the story of his victories to his fans in the spirit of “Saul has killed his thousands, David his tens of thousands” — he being “David”, of course, to the new atheist’s “Saul”. And if he doesn’t get to debate them, he browbeats them for their failure to stand up to his challenge. The level of misrepresentation and prevarication involved in the proclamation of his victories is perhaps the least disturbing feature of this man, but it is not insignificant. After his debate with Lawrence Krauss this year Krauss felt the need to respond to Craig’s post-debate misrepresentations, to which, of course, Craig added his last word. The man is neither trustworthy nor fair. Since he thinks it’s alright to murder Canaanites in the name of God, he no doubt thinks he serves God best by puffed up victory celebrations of imaginary triumphs.
Earlier, and with some justice, Dawkins could say that he just doesn’t debate creationists — of whom William Lane Craig is certainly one – or that he does not debate those whose only claim to fame is that they are professional debaters. And all one need do is look at Craig’s website, reasonablefaith.org, to see that this is precisely how Craig markets himself. However, now Dawkins has an even more compelling reason to turn down what he calls “Craig’s latest stalking foray [which has taken] the form of a string of increasingly hectoring challenges to confront him in Oxford this October.” He rightly trumps the idiot darling of the “Evangelical Christian Defence League” (an imaginary association) by pointing out that he doesn’t debate people who justify genocide, as William Lane Craig rather foolishly did last year.
The interesting thing about the biblical stories of the “Children of Israel” taking over the “Promised Land” and killing all its inhabitants is that there is not a shred of historical evidence for the recorded genocide, but the myth of God’s chosen people being given the land that had belonged to others was apparently more important than history, so the story was told. Craig, being the literalist Christian that he is, despite his claim to philosophical sophistication, believes the story, right down to the details of the murder of women and children, so he has to justify it. But you can’t justify genocide, so Dawkins is right when he says:
But Craig is not just a figure of fun. He has a dark side, and that is putting it kindly. Most churchmen these days wisely disown the horrific genocides ordered by the God of the Old Testament. Anyone who criticises the divine bloodlust is loudly accused of unfairly ignoring the historical context, and of naive literalism towards what was never more than metaphor or myth.
Nevertheless, nothing but cold-blooded murder will do for Craig. Here’s Craig as quoted by Dawkins:
So whom does God wrong in commanding the destruction of the Canaanites? Not the Canaanite adults, for they were corrupt and deserving of judgment. Not the children, for they inherit eternal life. So who is wronged? Ironically, I think the most difficult part of this whole debate is the apparent wrong done to the Israeli [sic] soldiers themselves. Can you imagine what it would be like to have to break into some house and kill a terrified woman and her children? The brutalising effect on these Israeli [sic] soldiers is disturbing.
The soldiers, note, are Israeli! Note too that killing babies is okay, for they are innocent and inherit eternal life! Craig is no doubt one of those (ambiguous) ”friends” of contemporary Israel, and his justification of the genocide of the Canaanites is doing double duty here. As well as attempting to justify the biblical genocides, Craig is speaking a justifying word to today’s Israelis, to those more extremist Jews in Israel who make use of precisely these biblical myths of conquest to justify the theft of land on the West Bank, and even the murder of Palestinians.
But note the Nazi self-justification, exemplified so well by Himmler’s address to the SS in Poland: Just imagine the trauma of being commanded to murder a terrified woman and her children! Consider the brutalising effect of such a strenuous demand made by God on his chosen people! But to have done so and remained decent. This has made us strong! Has Craig no shame at all?!
Yet, on considering the matter further, Craig has the temerity to say:
I find it ironic that atheists should often express such indignation at God’s commands, since on naturalism there’s no basis for thinking that objective moral values and duties exist at all and so no basis for regarding the Canaanite slaughter as wrong. As Doug Wilson has aptly said of the Canaanite slaughter from a naturalistic point of view, “The universe doesn’t care.” So at most the non-theist can be alleging that biblical theists have a sort of inconsistency in affirming both the goodness of God and the historicity of the conquest of Canaan. It’s an internal problem for biblical theists, which is hardly grounds for moral outrage on the part of non-theists. If there is an inconsistency on our part, then we’ll just have to give up the historicity of the narratives, taking them as either legends or else misinterpretations by Israel of God’s will. The existence of God and the soundness of the moral argument for His existence don’t even come into play.
This is simply philosophically illiterate. But, the truth is, the universe simply doesn’t care. That’s about the only thing Craig gets right. It’s true, the universe doesn’t care, but we are not the universe, and we care, and we are offended by the religious justification of murder and mayhem, just as we are offended by a lot of other things that the religious think are justified or commanded by their gods. The stupid claim, made over and over again by this soldier for Christ, that there is no reason except God’s commands for doing good and avoiding evil, and that atheists have no ground for morality, makes Craig’s argument that much more morally disturbing. Even if, as Craig now thinks (on a closer reading of the text, as he puts it), God didn’t command the Israelites to kill all the inhabitants of Canaan, but merely to drive them out of the land, the attempted justification of acquiring land by conquest is disturbing — and note that this still justifies murdering those who didn’t run away:
I have come to appreciate as a result of a closer reading of the biblical text that God’s command to Israel was not primarily to exterminate the Canaanites but to drive them out of the land. It was the land that was (and remains today!) paramount in the minds of these Ancient Near Eastern peoples. The Canaanite tribal kingdoms which occupied the land were to be destroyed as nation states, not as individuals. [my italics]
They were a debauched people anyway, he says, so the deaths of Canaanites wouldn’t register on God’s conscience, nor should it have registered on the conscience of his chosen people. So Craig thinks it makes sense to say, with crazy wide-eyed innocence:
If the Canaanite tribes, seeing the armies of Israel, had simply chosen to flee, no one would have been killed at all. There was no command to pursue and hunt down the Canaanite peoples.
So they should have just run away! They were wrong to defend their homes and families! Speaking of Craig’s dark side is putting it mildly. How about psychopathic? The man is morally bankrupt, and yet there he is, shuttling around Britain on his “Reasonable Faith Tour”! The man is a shameless religious huckster who not only justifies genocide, but believes in a god who commands such atrocities! Why would anyone go to hear what he has to say?

Thank you Eric, yet another excellent piece identifying yet more horrific aspects of the death-cult known as christianity (and by similarity, religion in general).
The Gish Gallop is the only art that Craig masterfully excels in.
I think you would probably do quite well in a sparring session with Craig. But I completely agree that he’s totally unworthy of anyone’s time.
Craig’s main tactic is to gussy up bad religious arguments with even worse understanding of science.
Were I in the position to “debate” him, I would insist on only one condition — that I be allowed to speak first. Doesn’t matter what the topic would be — let Craig rig the deck all he wants. Just let me go first is all I ask.
I would stand and say the following: “I am going to yield all of my remaining time to Dr. Craig. However, every single time he misuses science, every time he knowingly abuses physics, mathematics, chemistry, and biology, and every time he does so understanding that his interpretation of the facts are the purest of fiction — I will blow this air horn. Dr. Craig, your stage.”
It would be a noisy night, that’s for sure.
Correct me if I am wrong, but didn’t god specifically command the killing of children and pregnant women? We are to believe such people made no effort to “flee”, therefore their slaughter is justified? How outrageous can you get?
Honest debate can be an excellent way of considering opposing viewpoints and getting a better idea of which views are most in tune with reality. Criag, however, is as dishonest a debater as I have ever seen. I have to agree with Dawkins’ decision here.
I actually had this same argument about genocide with some family members when I came out as an atheist. It was incredibly frustrating that no matter how much I pointed it out they couldn’t see a conflict between their belief that all life is sacred and begins at conception so no abortion is ever OK (even in the case or rape or incest) and their contention that it was merciful and moral to kill Canaanite babies since they would get a quick trip to heaven. When pressed they even admitted that slavery must be moral for today, although probably unnecessary, since God explicitly says it is fine in the Bible. If that isn’t a perfect example of the corrupting influence of the theology of people like Craig I don’t know what is.
Let me add that Craig has been corrected on camera about the existence of objective moral values using a naturalistic account, specifically during a debate with the moral philosopher Shelley Kagan. In fact, Shelley shows how trivially easy it is to account for objective moral values on the naturalistic account using social contract theory. Granted, the debate was awhile ago, but it seems to me to be another instance where he was show to be incorrect and yet continues to parrot the same tired refrain. It is an entertaining debate; Shelley dismantles Craig thoroughly, in particular, when Shelley demonstrates the lack of accountability that you find in christianity which quickly elicited a hearty laugh from the audience. The real meat is in the back and forth session after their opening statements. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKxCZNw2F2I
I don’t recall where I read this, but it seems appropriate:
“Debating creationists is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory.”
As you point out, the poster for the talk is a marketing failure.
The God Delusion in the chair indicates the book speaks for itself and for Dawkins. It answers the question “Is God a Delusion?” The use of the word _delusion_ prompts the reader to think about Dawkins’ book.and Dawkins rather than WLG, whose name is less familiar to the general public.
The poster is too busy and does not provide a focus for the reader. A panel that consists of atheists, agnostics and Christians also promises to be unfocused.
The promotional material for William Lane Craig’s Reasonable Faith Tour is starting to look like overkill:
http://www.bethinking.org/what-is-apologetics/introductory/theres-probably-no-dawkins.htm
Veronica, you’re right, simply from the point of view of design, Craig’s poster is a disaster. “Less is more” as Elizabeth used to say. Make it clear, make it focused, make it able to be taken in at a glance.
What’s amusing about the whole thing is that Craig obviously feels that he needs to debate Dawkins. It’s all about his CV. He never listens to his opponents anyway. His debates are just a way of building up his own image of himself as invincible. That he thinks he is is obvious from his web site. But without Dawkins in his bag of trophies he obviously feels he lacking something.
Besides all that, he “debate” tours are billed as evagelistic missions. They give him the chance to repeat everything he knows, and he pretends that he has thereby ground his opponents into the muck. Anyone who has watched one of his “debates” — and I literally had to force myself to watch the whole of one, at great cost to myself, I might add — will see that he’s a second-grade Christian punk who knows a little philosopohy and thinks that gives him an edge — the Lord wouldn’t let him down! — over any opponent, even the great Satan himself (that being Dawkins, of course).
Your next comment came in as I was writing this. I was particularly struck by this:
Yeah for Polly Toynbee. Anyone who is asked to debate this idiot should first watch one of his debates. They’re not debates. There’s one monologue, and the other person basically plays the role of straight man for Craig’s antics. Why anyone would debate him is beyond me.
Veronica (#9). Yes, overkill is certainly the word. This almost beggars imagination. What would possess these people to harp on Dawkins’ refusal to debate this silly man? It just makes him look sillier, surely?
Got to love that he starts his reply: “I find it ironic that atheists should often express such indignation at God’s commands, since on naturalism there’s no basis for thinking that objective moral values and duties exist at all and so no basis for regarding the Canaanite slaughter as wrong.” as if that absolves the criticism. It’s a huge non-sequitur, and one there purely to set the tone of the discussion.
It’s things like this that make me wonder why WLC is taken seriously, it’s like arguing with a child.
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Lol it’s funny how atheists are currently making excuses on the method of debate when really we all know the problem is the content of the debate. Atheist cannot prove that God does not exist so what do they do? They sit incredulously on their computers conversing with other atheist facing the same dilemma. They encourage themselves with lies like the method that Craig uses to debate is the reason he wins 99-100% of his debates. You all refute of the premises on skepticism, and only like debating when you feel comfortable. I would think that you all should be more logic based, sense God is not easy to accept logically , but instead you all are one-uped every time against Craig. He uses your studies to prove his points. It’s amazing that the person who faired best against Craig was Islamist.
I’m tempted just to trash your message T Herbert Jeffrey. However, it is so obviously struggling that it might be interesting to someone who reads back through the posts to see how ineffective was the intervention of a religious-minded individual in the conversation. The idea that Craig wins 99-100% of his debates is a bit of grandstanding — certainly based on the debates that I have listened to. The problem with Craig is that he has one argument, which he fields no matter what his opponent says. And while this kind of dog and pony show might impress his religious followers, as argument it is simply a non-starter. Craig organises his debates so that he gets to play his own game, no matter what game his opponents play. The result may impress you, but to my mind he is perhaps one of the worst debaters on the circuit.