Home > Religion and Science, Respect for Religion, Theodicy > An Even Bigger Disaster. A Train Wreck of a God.

An Even Bigger Disaster. A Train Wreck of a God.

This morning when I woke up I had in mind writing something about theodicy, and how it is simply impossible to square the way the world is with a god that is considered even remotely good, and so I wrote the post “A Disaster of a God,” but then, checking in just now with a few of my favourite blogs, I came upon Jerry Coyne’s post about the Biologos video below. How can you plan for this kind of thing? Christians go from one peak of nonsense to another. As we saw yesterday (was it?), it’s hard to tell the jokes from the real thing. Do you think the guy in the video below is really serious? What, I wonder, would tip you off?

Clearly, it seems that whoever posted it believes that, if a pastor said it, it can’t be stupid, but it is. (And that’s not surprising, since a pastor is a shepherd, and shepherds herd sheep. As Christopher Hitchens says, “Once you know that Christians call themselves a flock, you already know enough about this religion.”) In it Pastor Daniel Harrell proposes a solution to the problem of evolution and the problem of evil. The problem is that evolution magnifies the problem of evil, since waste and death and suffering are part of the process of weeding out the fit from the unfit. That’s how the filter of natural selection works.

So, not very surprisingly, Pastor Harrell’s solution is all about death, and how important Christians think death is, since the central “mystery” of Christianity is Jesus’ death on a cross (with which Europeans can now festoon their classrooms). What could be simpler? This, Pastor Harrell thinks to himself, must have something to do with the problem of evil, surely – don’t you think, … maybe? Besides, we can’t get to eternal life any other way, and none of us gets out of life alive, so perhaps god planned it this way, and if he did, he’d have to make it pretty obvious that death was at the heart of his plan, wouldn’t he? Well, wouldn’t he?! 

Anyway, I found this so abhorrently and contemptibly mindless, that I simply could not refrain from commenting, and what I write, for the most part, is in anger. Here’s the video.

Dr. Coyne has very kindly transliterated some of it for us, only I’ve added a few words that Jerry leaves out (in italics). Here’s a bit of this fatuous attempt to justify god’s ways to man.

The amount of death and waste that evolution requires — the apparent death and waste that evolution requires – was a big stumbling block for a lot of Christians who began to dig into it.Why is it that things wouldn’t develop just linearly and beautifully and just happen? Why all this waste or death? And one of the things that was so helpful to me was the realisation of how death is part of the character of God.

(Notice the reference to apparent death and waste.) And then, of course, he launches into his schtick about how Jesus was god and died for us, and all that sort of Christian thing. But the point, in case Pastor Harrell, caught up as he is in his Biologos moment, misses it, is that Jesus’ death, in the Christian imagination, is a victory over death. Now, there’s no point making Jesus’ death a victory unless death itself is something evil, not a part of the character of god, but a part of all those forces that oppose god.

And this has always been a part of the Christian message. Death came into the world through one man (Adam), and it is through Jesus’ death that that curse, imposed on all humankind (and all of creation too) by Adam’s sin, will be lifted. But just as, with Job — see the last post about “A Disaster of a God” — merely replacing all that was lost is not a really a substitute for those lost things, so nothing will be able to make up for all the suffering that is the outcome of the long, still unfinished march of life by means of evolution.

Contrary to what Pastor Harrell and Biologos may think, this is not only an unacceptable solution for Christians — you cannot simply map the death of Christ onto the whole train of suffering involved in evolution — if that one unique death doesn’t do the trick, other deaths can contribute nothing; but quite aside from that, it is a desperate attempt to make science consistent with a religious myth that took shape in the religious imaginations of a few people a long time ago. There’s not a single reason why this myth should be consistent with the discoveries of science. Indeed, it is very unlikely to be so. When the myth of the supposedly redemptive death of Christ was told, little was known about how life on earth came about. Many centuries passed before it was known that life evolved from simple beginnings, and that we are connected by almost an unimaginably long succession of suffering life, going back millions of years, to single celled organisms that are our ancestors. Think of how many millions of years life on earth has been simply a vast toiling mass of misery, without even the ability to ask the question why. Think of those years, and that long, weary weight of suffering. And then think of all this as part of the character of a god.

It is simply absurd to try to fold all of this suffering into the suffering of one man on a cross in Palestine sometime in the first century of the common era, no matter how horrible it may have been. Jesus’ suffering — if, indeed, the story is even true — lasted only three hours, according to the gospel account. Some men lived for two days hanging tortured on a cross, and I have watched people suffer affliction from cancer and other diseases much more intensely and for much much longer than that. The kind of idiocy represented by this Biologos video is beneath contempt. Whatever could these people be thinking?!

When I hear this kind of contemptible special pleading, Christians trying desperately to clutch at straws of meaning in order to preserve their ancient stories, I remember that these are the people who, almost every time, seek to prolong the suffering of those who are living in intolerable pain and suffering and indignity. This, after all, is the character of god. This kind of religious folly fills me with a deep sense of repugnance and loathing. It is nothing more than lunacy masquerading as seriousness. Can anyone speak so stupidly and be thought to be making a serious contribution to a civilised conversation? I think not. As one commenter on YouTube says, “Theology is the art of making shit up.” That’s about the size of it.

And yet this is produced by people who think they are bringing religion and science together. Of course, the truth is that something that can simply be made up without constraint can be dismissed without reflection, and cannot be made compatible with a dimension of human knowing which demands rigorous testing and clear formulation. The Biologos aim to integrate science and Christianity is and must remain a failure. The real question we should ask is how it is possible for serious scientists to take it seriously – or is this only a parlour game that they play when they are not doing science?

Even though it’s a response to other offences by religious leaders, Tim Michin’s Pope Song comes to mind in the face of this vapid idiocy. It captures my sense of offence and anger at the confident authority of the religious who justify suffering in order to keep their fucking god:

  1. Kevin
    19 March 2011 at 19:44 | #1

    Quite right. As I said earlier, it’s the Christian ethos that suffering = a better apartment in the afterlife.

    I think the proper response to anyone who says we must suffer is to require that person to suffer along with us. A crucifixion for cancer. Seems fair. For every hour I suffer from cancer, YOU have to stay on the cross. Oh, we’ll revive you every so often — but back on the cross you go after you’ve sufficiently recovered.

    Alternately, limit the suffering to exactly the length of time Jesus was purportedly on the cross. Three hours? Sounds about right.

    More than that, and it’s just sadism and needless cruelty.

  2. Charles Sullivan
    19 March 2011 at 22:05 | #2

    And what about all the non-human suffering? I wonder how Jesus’ death is supposed to relate to that?

  3. 19 March 2011 at 23:53 | #3

    Well, Charles, their pain reminds us that God is mysterious. The death and suffering of non-humans brings life to other animals. If we just think of God using evolution as an energy transference service, it isn’t such a waste to carrion-eaters, is it?

    Yes, theology is all about making shit up.

  4. Kiwi Dave
    20 March 2011 at 01:57 | #4

    One application of Bizarro Theodicy (TM) washes cleaner than clean any divinely-authored barbarity in the natural world or the bible.

    Is there any cruelty apologists cannot excuse?

  5. Michael Fisher
    20 March 2011 at 02:02 | #5

    I have never met a ‘believer’ of any religion with a broad intellect ~ even the intelligent ones with a philosophical/logical/scientific training are crippled by ‘other-ways-of-knowing’ & the sanctimonious moral baggage that informs their world view.

    These people are unable to contemplate daily life without the big lie that acts as the social glue for their peculiar ‘in group’

    At the top of this shabby pyramid stands the likes of Harrell. There is nowhere for these creatures to go because they have reached the peak of their perverse version of Mount Improbable.

    We’ll pull ‘em down one day.

  6. Chuk
    20 March 2011 at 05:07 | #6

    Love this blog.

    When I understood the meaning of an ad hoc explanation, I became ashamed at my religious belief.

  7. Ian Tuffs
    20 March 2011 at 05:32 | #7

    I am an Australian aged 64 and nothing the “godists” say amazes me anymore. I often think the universe is running countless virtual reality programs and I and my fellow infidels reside in one program and godists in others.
    Eric, I have been visiting your site since it was launched and reading your posts at other sites and concur with you on so many issues. What puzzles me is why did it take you so long to reject christianity and presumable other religions? If you don’t wish to respond I understand and you can just put it down to receiving a response from a discourteous Australian!

  8. 20 March 2011 at 08:23 | #8

    Ian, in answer to your question, I suppose, given my upbringing, which was not a happy one, I found it difficult to let go of childhood indoctrination, and I alternated between states of belief an unbelief, yet, I suppose, deep down, I still wanted it to be true. And when one lives in the midst of a believing community, especially in a leadership position, it is not hard to retain a sense of the rationality of it all, because it is all so wonderfully self-contained. It provides its own language, almost its own rationality. There may be little gaps in the argument, but those are soon filled up with liberal compromises, and that makes it possible to go just a bit further.

    Think about someone like Jack Spong. He really hasn’t been a Christian for years, in any normative sense, and yet he’s managed to make a very profitable living providing a foundation for unbelievers to stay in the church. So, sticking with it is a combination of childhood upbringing, community belonging, a sense of cultural identification, and a whole lot of self-deception.

    It took the shock of real suffering, and the obvious inability of the church to provide for moral change and human sensitivity, to break the links that held me. Nothing discourteous about the question. Makes perfectly good sense. It’s a good question. How can people maintain the firmness of faith in the face of everything that militates against it? Not an easy question to answer, but I think for most people it comes down to a sense of cultural belonging, more than of real belief. There is, as Dennett says, a deep belief in belief, the sense that losing faith entirely is to betray the foundations of one’s cultural identity.

  9. Hal
    20 March 2011 at 11:41 | #9

    That video and your comments reminds me of an “insight” I came up with 55 years ago in the seminary. The Saturday evening routine was to gather in small groups, with each group containing a range of upper- and lower-classmen, to discuss the readings of the following day’s liturgy. The readings on that day included the “take up your cross” admonition. The “insight” that I, a lower-classman, came up with was that in allowing ourselves to be nailed to the cross, we would find ourselves supported by it. “Excellent point,” said one of the upper-class theologians, who, like me, had just had a good supper.

    I am still shamed and chagrined at the stupidity of the remark. But, as you say, Eric, when you are within a self-contained system, almost anything can pass for insight.

  10. Veronica
    20 March 2011 at 14:32 | #10

    Thank you for posting Tim Minchin’s “Pope Song” with its effective use of language.

    Here is a rant about all three Abramic religions:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tsgmuD6eDg

  11. Egbert
    20 March 2011 at 14:56 | #11

    I think we need to change our tact, and no longer acknowledge Christianity on any intellectual or reasonable level, but rather to hold it in ridicule and contempt, and argue against it both morally and politically, not just critically.

    It is in the interest of the religious to be taken seriously as reasonable and intellectual, because this is what gives it political and moral authority in our modern world. It is rather like arguing for and against homeopathy or astrology. We are giving it added intellectual weight simply by taking it seriously on an intellectual level.

    Recently–possibly spurred by the misguidedness of Scott Aikin and Robert B. Talisse–the gnus have been discussing arguments for God such as the ontological argument. I consider this a mistaken and timewasting fad which serves nothing useful but to divert away from the general immorality and political maneuvering of religion in our societies.

    This is why I applaud Eric’s article above, which gets us back on track on what gnu atheism is really all about. We live in critical times and we need our eye on the ball about what is happening in world events right now.

  12. 20 March 2011 at 19:46 | #12

    Oh, gawd – it’s horrible. He’s just playing – like a stupid little kitten playing with a crumpled piece of paper. That cheery little near-smile on his face while he spins nonsense about the wonders of god making all this death.

    He calls it “waste” – but he doesn’t mention suffering. He talks as if the “waste” is just illusory and temporary. It’s not waste, it’s loss, irrevocable agonizing loss, for billions and billions of animals as well as for us. It’s not illusory and temporary, it’s the real thing, and it sucks. It’s not “God” playing a little game where he takes away parents, children, friends, only to give them back a little later.

    He’s not serious. How dare he talk about this without being serious? How dare he not even mention suffering and loss? How dare he smile?

  13. 20 March 2011 at 20:27 | #13

    Yes, indeed, how dare he? But how dare this coven of “scientists” and believers get together and, without shame, issue this tripe, and claim, lyingly — and that is what they are doing — that it is a serious contribution to a very serious conversation. Francis Collins shouldn’t be able to get away with this sort of nonsense, without it rubbing off on him somewhere. How dare someone with this large profile allow his name to be associated with this truly fatuous idiocy? The religious play games with words, and it would not matter, they would still play them even if all the world lay in ruins around them. Have they not noticed, while they do this, the problems that religion is causing all around them? Death, injustice, oppression, cruelty, lawlessness, tyranny, slavery: so many things that can be laid directly at the door of religion, and these people have the never to defend it with shallowness and lies. And Michael Ruse has the nerve to suggest that the problem of evil has not been solved! God, what a fool! It has been solved. There is no god. That’s the solution, as Epicurus knew. Why does Ruse pretend that there is any other solution?

  14. Ian Tuffs
    21 March 2011 at 01:27 | #14

    Hi again Eric, thank you for being so forthright. I fully understand the pull of group dynamics and the strong urge to belong to a tribe. And the discontent arising from being outside the tribe.

  15. Egbert
    21 March 2011 at 07:24 | #15

    Religion is quiet literally playing. It is not work, like science is work or engineering is work. Hence it’s pretense at being science or pretense as engineering, and every other field it’s poisoned, like morality. It’s not serious about morality, it’s a pretense. It’s not serious about anything, not even death.

  16. Kevin
    21 March 2011 at 23:47 | #16

    I don’t know if I’ve ever said this, but I’m sorry for your loss.

    It’s more than obvious that you and Elizabeth were a special combination.

    Most of us can only envy a bond that strong.

    I’m truly sorry that her suffering (and yours) led you down this path. Though I’m grateful for the outcome, the means in no way justify the ends.

  17. Tom
    25 March 2011 at 13:23 | #17

    Too bad anger generated from an exchange of ideas tends to blind people from the gems of truth (or at least plausibility) that lie embedded in the work, that might actually be worth considering. Hope for your sake that what you think is the final word for all of us…hope for everyone else’s sake that they can maybe not be so influenced by your anger. Lots of things out there worth becoming indignant about…this is definitely not one of them.

  18. 25 March 2011 at 14:29 | #18

    Where, pray tell, are the gems of truth here? And, whether this is or is not something, to your mind, worth being indignant about, it certainly deserves it from my point of view. This kind of thoughtless religious idiocy has been propping up religion and religion inspired interference in the lives and with the rights of others for far too long. If people want to believe strange things, that’s fine. I have a brother who thinks he’s the reincarnated twin brother of Jesus, and that doesn’t bother me so long as it doesn’t interfere with my own life — as it has. When people try to justify god’s ways to man, there is always a spin off in the way people go on to justify and even to approve people’s suffering, and it’s this kind of religious nonsense that deserves and receives my contempt.

  1. 19 March 2011 at 19:58 | #1
  2. 20 March 2011 at 15:06 | #2

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